Video Lecture 11: GV Intro and Ch1
Here is the link to the video lecture. https://youtu.be/hmWReEAu8PI Here is a link to a great song that illustrates (in the chorus especially) a telltale sign of someone who either has a vice or is well on his way to acquiring one. You can email me an explanation of why that is true (How does the song illustrate someone who either has or is going to have a vice?) for extra credit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT_nvWreIhg&feature=kp
Interview #9
ReplyDeleteJuly 22, 2017
Interview #9
In this interview Libby and Prof. Isa are determining the right and the wrong still between moral absolutists and moral relativists. Isa believes that his argument points go from weaker to stronger. His points are: the argument from consequences, from consensus, from experience, from moral argument, from moral language, the logical self-contradiction argument and the practical self-contradiction argument.
Isa pointed out from one of Libby’s arguments of absolutism being wrong because of bad consequences, namely intolerance. He pointed that he felt it was opposite where absolutists holds tolerance much better than the relativists. Tolerance became a lead topic in understanding it. Tolerance being the one value you have left when you’ve lost all of your principles. (based on an absolutist). When Libby hears this she feels that he is confusing a consequence with a motive. Isa believes that the consequence of relativism is tolerance. Not tolerance of opinions or persons, but tolerance of evil. How much you tolerate of a person doing bad, before doing bad also.
His second argument was that from consensus, or common consent. Where Isa believes the most of the people who have ever lived are absolutists. To be a relativist, you are to be a snob, meaning you have always believed that all those that have lived have lived their life believing in illusions, fantasies and myths. Relativism is a minority, more concentrated in one civilization. Isa states the modern West, which were the white, democratic, industrialized, urbanized, secularized, and the university-educated people.
Third argument was that of the experience- the moral experience. The argument from retrieving moral experience through data. Whether this was based on science or not, in finding who is moral absolutist, or moral relativist. So his fourth argument is that of moral language, just now he is going over it a bit more. Isa states that our moral language, is not that we don’t just fight an argument out, we quarrel about it. Therefore we are not really saying how we feel. We cover it up with something, not so much of a powerful phrase, but it is said to show something is wrong without completely coming out with what is really wrong. For his example, some moral principle, like “thou shalt not murder: or “don’t kill innocent people”, and then bringing in some factual situations like, “ babies are innocent people”. “Therefore don’t kill babies”. Is the conclusion we get from this.
Libby did not agree with the previous argument, so that moved on to the hypocrisy, that Prof. Isa believes that moral relativists are. He believes relativists contradict themselves by preaching certain ideas, but yet performing something different from which they spoke. Isa goes on by saying, if you practice the relativism you preach, you’ll stop preaching. If you preach what you practice, you’ll start preaching commonsense morality and a real right and wrong.
Questions:
1. Do you believe tolerance as a key factor to some of the bad things you have thought of doing? Or do you believe tolerance is a key to not performing those bad things?
2. What would you rather do: practice what you preach, or would you rather preach what you practice?
I would rather practice what I preach. I want to be the example that others need to see. It will allow the hypocritical comments to not be made as much. To me, I view this scenario as a statement and fact. I am making a statement, but then I have facts to back up what I said. This is like practicing what I preach. I am doing as I preach. I am being an example and then having my preaching to back it up. With this, I believe I will not be viewed as being a hypocrite. I am using my actions as something seen first. Then my words will be a guide.
DeleteI believe tolerance is the factor to some of the bad things I have thought of doing. I think tolerance begins with the thinking process. To me, I feel the first option in the question was referring to the thought process while the second option was more on the action part. The thinking process comes first. With that being said, this is when I believe tolerance would be shown most. Hence, why I said tolerance was more of the first option then the second option. A person must tolerant the thinking of bad things before doing them. Thinking before acting to me is what is key and where tolerance comes in.
DeleteAgreed. You will usually think before you speak. Where I feel you will think before you act also. You will tolerate some things, before you realize whether you want to be a part of that, or realize that you don't. I feel that is where you will use it the most. I also agree where your thought process, obviously comes first, so therefore you will think about what you are going to do first before actually doing them. Granted not everyone does, but I hope that most do.
DeleteI would rather practice what I preach. Sometimes we are tempted to say one thing but do exactly the opposite especially when it pertains to our children. We tell them that they are not permitted to for instance to curse or use mean language but we turn around and do the opposite. I want to be a role model to my children and that is why I would rather what I say to them is evidence through my action. children are very smart and they know when one is doing the opposite of what you asked them not to. As a matter of fact they will let you know that your actions are contrary to what you taught them. That's why I believe in practicing what I preach.
DeleteI agree with you eunice. It is important to practice what you preach to your children but i think when speaking in general you preach how your practicing. I beleive you could be looked at as untruthful if you preach something but practice completely different. Your word could almost become invaluable
DeleteI do think that tolerance is a key factor in some bad things that I have done. Or, maybe tolerance isn't the right word, but more so justification so that I do not feel guilt. I am an absolutist, but we all have relativist tendencies. For example, peer pressure I think is a good example of this. We justify our actions (even if they are wrong) based on what others are doing. However, I think that we all still feel that sense of guilt, no matter how much we justify it, and so I am not sure if that is actually tolerance. Maybe we tolerate the behavior while we are experiencing it, but, deep down, we know that we really don't.
ReplyDeleteTolerance is the tolerance of one bad thing in order to avoid the bigger evil. I think that you are right, it is not really tolerance that encourages bad thing, but justification. It is an extremely relativistic thing to do, and it is easy fall into the ploy. When I think of tolerance I think of someone else doing something bad and overlooking it, or accepting it even though we know it is wrong because we love the person. The saying "love the sinner, hate the sin" brought up in the first discussion of this in an earlier interview put it into perspective for me. But a dangerous path with loving a sinner is that we may become so accustomed to such behavior that we might start thinking that it actually isn't wrong after all, so I can see how tolerance can lead us to do bad things, but I agree that it starts with justification first.
DeleteIdealistically, I would like to both practice what I preach and preach what I practice-- because if I am doing both than there will be no inconsistencies or contradiction. HOWEVER, since human error and sin exist in the world, I would much rather practice what I preach. I fully admit to, at times, being a hypocrite. I have definitely acted in ways that has gone against how I have told other people I live or how I think that people in general should live. I am a sinful creature by nature and am prone to make mistakes. SO, I would love to be able to perfectly practice what I preach so as to set a good, honest example for everyone.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Also I have done plenty that I have went against the practice what you preach, when I was younger. But now that I have children to raise, I really would much rather work on both, practice what I preach and preach what I practice. With that they will get the sense of always doing good by their word and their actions. Or at least I hope.
DeleteI totally agree with you Ru and I would like to do both as well, practice what i preach and preach what I practice. I think we would all like to do both that way there are no inconsistencies with what we say or do. But being the humans we are I believe we have all succumbed to a little hypocrisy in our lives. I know I have acted in ways in which I believe to be wrong and tell others they shouldn't do those things, but I believe I was younger and didn't know any better. Being an adult now and trying to live they way God wants us to, I think I practice what I preach now that I know how I am to act.
DeleteI think tolerance can bee a good thing. I believe tolerance can be viewed as being patient and not jumping in to a fight with someone you do not agree with. I think its because of tolerance that I have been able to get along with others instead of pointing out what's wrong with them. I am able to tolerate them thus leading to a peaceful relationship. I also believe that Tolerance can lead to bad choices as well. there are things that I have allowed to happen that I shouldn't have because they were wrong , but because I was able to tolerate them, I justified the actions and allowed it to happen. Thus tolerance can lead to both good and bad choices.
DeleteMoral argument is possible since it is actual and meaningful. So we do not need to prove moral absolutism possible or not. In addition, moral arguments are proofs. Libby asked what was the purpose. Isa relied the goal was proving the conclusion to be true. In conclusion, relativistic morality is self-contradictory, not only bad and not only false. Besides, moral obligations are not suggestions, people do not have to believe authorities, and they should have their own thinking, and make objective decisions. We should not lose our humanity. Our society needs scientific logic, pure and disinterested thinking, and make our theories become absolute, objective, impersonal, and universal theories.
ReplyDeleteIsa thought elitism should not impose their morality in popular opinion. Isa took historical ignorance, medieval, philosophers and theologians of all religious as examples. Then Isa started the next argument that the data comes from our moral experiences. Isa explained people do not argue their feelings; they usually have no “thermometer” to tell them the real “temperature”. Therefore, they need to summarize and conclude what they have done from their experiences. Also conclusions come from premises, therefore, an object, accurate, and correct premise is an important factor of making a conclusion.
ReplyDeleteDo you believe tolerance as a key factor to some of the bad things you have thought of doing? Or do you believe tolerance is a key to not performing those bad things?
ReplyDeleteI think both statements are true of tolerance. It is both a key factor in the bad things I thought of doing and stopped me from doing bad things. It is tolerance of my choices that allow me to be relativistic about the decision I make. It is my tolerance of other's choices that prevent mine from doing bad things or saying bad things. My tolerance of myself allows me to make wrong decisions, like lying to my mom. My tolerance of others prevents me pointing out other's flaws. I think it our decision on how we view and use our choices based on our tolerance.
I believe tolerance is both as well. We tolerate doing things that are wrong and bad but we also use tolerance to stop us from doing those things, and doing good. I know I have tolerance for things I do but then I see these actions being done by others and think to myself, what are they thinking doing that. That's when I feel like a hypocrite because what I tolerate from myself I see it wrong when someone else does it. I believe the older we get we also get wiser form being youths to knowing what we did was wrong and seeing others do that, we wish they would see the bad they are doing too. It's a learning process that we all have to do and can't tell someone not to do it, they will just have to learn for themselves like we had to do.
DeleteWhat would you rather do: practice what you preach, or would you rather preach what you practice?
ReplyDeleteI would rather practice what I preach. I'm trying to do good, but I know that if I had to preach what I have practiced, would probably die of the embarrassment of what I've done. I have made a mistake in my past and present but will always work to do better. I will always try to practice what I preach to show others a Christ like love. I think of what I tell my nieces and nephew do as I say not as I do.I pray that they will hear and follow my words, not my wayward choices.
In all of our lives we have done things that we may not be proud of and wish we could go back and change. The important thing is that you are striving to become a better person and you care about your nieces and nephew which says a lot about you as far as I am concerned. You just keep moving forward and remember that you are setting a great example by going to college. My mother used to tell me "You do as I say, not as I do!" and I would think, why don't you just do as you want me to do. Now, as a mother myself, I realize it was just a saying that she said and that she was a great example of what I wanted to be when I grew up.
DeleteWhat would you rather do: practice what you preach, or would you rather preach what you practice?
ReplyDeleteI would rather practice what I preach. I have seen and experienced situations that have made me see the importance of being able to be an example for those that look up to you. When you have children you take on a responsibility to them to set a good example in how they should live their lives. It is so easy to expect someone to listen to what you say and for you not to follow the advice that you are giving to them yourself. The old saying, "You do as I say, not as I do!" is what I grew up hearing. It was one of the things I promised myself I would never say to my children. I wanted to be an example for them. Therefore, I try to practice what I preach to instill in them good behavior.
I think that if you practice what you preach, you will inevitably be preaching what you practice. I like that the saying says practice, because we all fail and will fall short, but as long as we keep practicing, I think there is no contradiction in saying both. If you continue to practice what you preach, and abide by the rules to the best of your ability, then what you preach will reflect what you are practicing. I think they go hand in hand.
ReplyDeleteWhat would you rather do: practice what you preach, or would you rather preach what you practice?
ReplyDeleteWell first of all, I think if your going to preach about something, then you better practice it. You shouldn't be telling others to do something that you yourself wouldn't do or have know knowledge of. Same goes for practice what you preach there is no vice versa.
Something that comes to my mind with this topic is that as a nurse you do lots of education. Say a nurse educates a patient who came in for respiratory distress and the patient is a smoker and has a history respiratory issues. The nurse educates the patient on non-smoking practices and educates them on a nicotine patch. Later that day when the patient is discharged, they see the nurse outside smoking a cigarette who just educated them on non-smoking practices and harmful factors of smoking. This has now negatively influenced the patient. I always say "to each their own". But I strongly feel, if you are going to tell someone that something is wrong, then you can not make it justifiable right for yourself in most situations.
Do you believe tolerance as a key factor to some of the bad things you have thought of doing?
ReplyDeleteI think I tolerate lot's of things in a daily basis and it is a key factor for some of the things I do. I tolerate my four year old's temper tantrums or fits because if I just sit and tolerate it and ignore his fits then he stops and realizes he cannot use crying or yelling as a way to change my answer to something I said "No" too and learns he has to clean his room or do whatever I told him because I'm the parent. Sometimes in the case above, tolerance is a positive thing and not just used as a factor for "bad things". Last Thanksgiving we got our roof redone on our house and they left halfway done over thanksgiving for a week before coming back to finish it, which I was not happy about because while it was protected from weather, it didn't look appealing for visitors but I tolerated it and decided not to call and complain to the company because I understand they had to have a break for thanksgiving, I just was not impressed with they way they did it. This could be an example of how my tolerance was a key factor to my negative thoughts.
Reading this interview was very intersting to me because it put some things in perspective for me such as the practice what you preach. But ive never heard of preach what you practice, that put the spark in my light bulb. I would much rather preach what i practice because you can preach all day about something but practice completely different. I beleive if your going to preach about something yoh should definitely practice what your preaching. I beleive that this makes your truthful, and honest you could be called hipocritical if you preach something but dont practice it.
ReplyDelete1. Do you believe tolerance as a key factor to some of the bad things you have thought of doing? Or do you believe tolerance is a key to not performing those bad things?
ReplyDeleteI believe that tolerance is the key to not doing bad things because tolerance is like a self internal voice letting you know you are up to your limit that should not be crossed. Tolerance is all of what you can handle and when thinking about doing something bad that tolerance level floats in our faces. It's like a warning label or alert that you are getting to hot or close to something. I usually always listen to that internal voice when it comes to meeting my tolerance level and not over stepping my boundaries.
ReplyDelete2. What would you rather do: practice what you preach, or would you rather preach what you practice?
I would rather practice what I preach just because it is basically walking into the existence of my goals. Meaning whatever I said I will do I am going to accomplish that task. Speaking out goad into existence then walking through with it is a much better feeling then preaching what you practiced or learned from someone else. Practice what we preach allows us to do things our own way and at the same time learn from our words of wisdom by speaking them to existence. Putting words with actions completes the saying. This forms bigger results than we imagined.